Dan Weissmann
For the previous 4 years, journalist Cara Anthony, a KFF Health News Midwest correspondent, has been reporting on the general public well being results of racism, violence, and intergenerational trauma in a small Missouri city. The consequence: a brand new documentary and podcast sequence known as “Silence in Sikeston.”
Cara Anthony sits down with “An Arm and a Leg” host Dan Weissmann to speak concerning the well being results of breaking silence and the way it may assist heal intergenerational trauma.
Dan Weissmann
Host and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Previously, Dan was a workers reporter for Marketplace and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work additionally seems on All Things Considered, Marketplace, the BBC, 99 Percent Invisible, and Reveal, from the Center for Investigative Reporting.
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Emily Pisacreta
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Adam Raymonda
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Ellen Weiss
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Transcript: Can Racism Make You Sick?
Note: “An Arm and a Leg” makes use of speech-recognition software program to generate transcripts, which can include errors. Please use the transcript as a software however verify the corresponding audio earlier than quoting the podcast.
Dan Weissmann: Hey there. We’re doing one thing a bit completely different this time. This story just isn’t about the price of healthcare, not in {dollars} and cents, and it’s really not about medical doctors or hospitals or medicines, but it surely’s a narrative about well being and about illness and damage and about how folks can take care of one another and assist one another heal.
And, I’ll inform you, it’s a powerful story. This is a narrative about racism, violence, and ongoing intergenerational trauma. So, you understand, nonetheless you may must deal with your self round a narrative like this, I need you to do this. But this can be a story I’ve been listening to about and looking out ahead to speaking about for years.
Cara Anthony is a Midwest correspondent with our companions at KFF Health News, and he or she’s been engaged on a documentary and a podcast about this story since 2020. And now her work, Silence in Sikeston, it’s out on the planet. PBS aired the documentary in September and the fourth and closing podcast episode got here out simply final week.
They join the tales of two younger Black fathers who had been killed within the small city of Sikeston, Missouri, virtually 80 years aside. Cleo Wright was lynched by a white mob in 1942. They dragged him from the jail to the Black part of city, and so they doused his physique with gasoline and lit the fireplace in entrance of a church on a Sunday morning.
In 2020. Denzel Taylor was killed by Sikeston police, he was unarmed. Police fired not less than 18 pictures. So the podcast Silence in Sikeston, it explores racism, violence, and systemic bias as public well being issues, actually making folks sick throughout entire communities and throughout generations. And it asks, amongst different issues, can breaking silences be therapeutic?
This is “An Arm and a Leg,” and often it’s a present about why healthcare prices so freaking a lot and what we are able to possibly do about it. I’m Dan Weissmann. I’m a reporter. I’m grateful to get to speak with Cara Anthony about her work. Cara, thanks a lot for becoming a member of us.
Cara Anthony: Thanks for having me, Dan.
Dan Weissmann: My pleasure. How, how did you change into conscious of those tales and the way did you resolve to pursue them?
Cara Anthony: In 2020, I used to be sitting on my sofa, watching the world erupt, you understand, watching what was taking place to George Floyd in Minneapolis. And I actually wished to affix the dialog that was taking place. And I made a decision, you understand what? While the world was taking note of Minnesota at the moment, I knew that there have been different tales on the market. And so, I’m a Midwest correspondent for KFF Health News. And I assumed I ought to check out what’s happening in Missouri. And I made a decision actually to take a look at rural Missouri and Black communities in rural Missouri and type of stumbled upon part of the state often known as the Boot Heel. That’s Southeast Missouri. It’s known as the Boot Heel as a result of that a part of Missouri type of stands proud like a boot and um, ended up in Sikeston, made a name in 2020 to the town’s first Black clerk there. And she mentioned, look, if you wish to know what it’s prefer to be Black within the Boot Heel, that you must have a dialog with my grandmother, Mabel Cook. And I mentioned, okay, you understand, pitched it to my editors. I assumed it will possibly be a 900 phrase story and it ended up being a 4 12 months journey. And right here we are actually.
Dan Weissmann: Wow. Okay. How did you pitch this story initially? I imply, you’re working then as now for KFF Health News. How did you pitch this story? ‘Like, well, so here’s a well being story.’ How was that a part of the pitch?
Cara Anthony: Yeah, I imply, I informed my editor, look, the entire nation is police violence and police killings, but additionally I knew that our nation had lived by means of a lynching period, and I simply mentioned, look, I wish to write a narrative about racial trauma. You know, on the time I used to be searching for indicators of like PTSD and individuals who had been nonetheless residing there and had witnessed this lynching that occurred in 1942. And my editor you understand, at first she was like, okay, you understand, go forward. Why don’t you go down there and see what yow will discover? And the extra I began speaking to folks, the extra I noticed that this knowledgeable their lives, how they associated to one another, how they associated to even regulation enforcement at the moment, and that’s after I determined, ‘you know what? This isn’t only a story about historical past, however quite we have to have a look at police killings and police violence at the moment.’ And that’s after I determined to look into the story of Denzel Taylor.
Dan Weissmann: And so his story, his loss of life had occurred only a few months earlier than you made your first telephone name to Sikeston. It didn’t change into a part of your reporting venture till later.
Cara Anthony: There had been a couple of native information headlines about what occurred to Denzel, however largely, you understand, folks ignored it. There was loads of silence round his loss of life as nicely. And that’s largely as a result of, Dan, folks don’t – and nonetheless at the moment – folks don’t really feel snug speaking about these things. It’s laborious. Um, for some folks they really feel as if their, their lives might be in jeopardy. Part of the rationale why we name it Silence in Sikeston, you understand – at first I used to be calling it, you understand, Black within the Boot Heel. I assumed that’s a intelligent title. And then I assumed that’s, that’s simply mistaken. This is deeper. People are holding in tales and I’m getting extra no’s than I’m yeses. And I mentioned, you understand, I simply informed my editor, I mentioned, now we have to name this Silence in Sikeston.
Dan Weissmann: Like, what causes did folks give for not wanting to speak to you? Why, and, and past what folks mentioned, like, why do you assume so many individuals didn’t wish to discuss to you?
Cara Anthony: You know, I feel there’s an enormous worry nonetheless. You know, Sikeston is a city of roughly 16,000 folks. And, I imply, if you understand small city politics, you perceive what it’s prefer to be in a smaller metropolis. Everybody is aware of everyone, proper? Also harm had been executed there earlier than I arrived and determined to begin, you understand, asking questions and wanting to inform tales. People actually feared retaliation due to racial trauma and since they didn’t need their member of the family to be subsequent. You even have simply the burden of what occurred to Cleo, proper? You know, this can be a Black man who was lynched on a Sunday morning in entrance of all the group. You know, they drug Cleo Wright to the Black part of city to make some extent. That is one thing that sticks with you. So Black folks had their causes for not wanting to speak different tales, you understand, um, issues that had occurred inside the Black group that made them fearful, but additionally, you understand, white residents on the town didn’t need the town to look dangerous. Every city has secrets and techniques and, um, a few of these secrets and techniques have to be unearthed and mentioned as a result of, um, they’ll make you sick if not.
Dan Weissmann: Yeah, we’ll get proper to that. What did you be taught concerning the well being prices of residing with violence in silence?
Cara Anthony: In episode three of the podcast, we speak about one thing known as anticipatory stress, which implies such as you’re all the time ready for the opposite shoe to drop. So possibly you understand, the subsequent era, they’re like, okay, we’re okay.
Y’all are, you understand, we’re new right here. Um, however then you’ve your moms and dads and grandmothers who’re nervous about, nicely, we wish to hold you protected and that’s demanding. And we all know that, uh, stress can wreak havoc in your physique. You may begin to see the bodily manifestations of that present up as most cancers, present up as diabetes, present up with coronary heart points, anxiousness, melancholy, the record goes on and on. You may even change into suicidal. That is tough to say, however whenever you really feel like you don’t have any one to speak to, it’s a really isolating feeling, Dan.
And as I saved speaking to folks in Sikeston that anticipatory stress, that saved arising.
Dan Weissmann: The anticipatory stress saved arising. Like what did folks say?
Cara Anthony: I imply, moms had been genuinely involved, genuinely involved about their youngsters, particularly once we take into consideration police violence and police killings. Now in 2020, Denzel Taylor was a younger Black father who was shot and killed by Sikeston PD. And though folks actually didn’t speak about it overtly, the physique cam footage appeared on Facebook. People did commerce across the video and noticed what occurred. People whispered about it in the identical approach folks whispered about what occurred to Cleo Wright when he was lynched in 1942. And so, they had been involved. I don’t need that to be me. I don’t need that to be my little one or grandchild. and this isn’t only a story that’s distinctive to Sikeston. And let me say that, you understand, police violence is is in all places. Police killings happen throughout this nation. You know, and again in 2020, there was a stat on the market that mentioned that Black males had a one in 1000 likelihood of being killed by the police. And so yeah, anticipatory stress is a large problem that saved arising within the reporting and one which we needs to be speaking about much more.
Dan Weissmann: Coming up: As Cara Anthony reported on Silence in Sikeston, her dad broke a protracted silence of his personal. That’s subsequent.
An Arm and a Leg is a co-production of Public Road Productions and KFF Health News. That’s a nationwide, nonprofit newsroom that produces in-depth journalism about well being points — together with Cara Anthony’s “Silence in Sikeston.” Now, again to my interview with Cara Anthony about her work.
Dan Weissmann: One factor you do within the podcast is you, um, discover how a few of these questions have come up in your personal household. And you deliver us some intimate conversations and a few actually powerful conversations. Um, what, particularly, as you had been reporting this story, your dad broke a silence of his personal to you. Um, it turned out that years earlier than you began this reporting, he had regarded into the loss of life of his personal uncle, Leemon, as a result of he’d had a way, your dad, that the tales he’d gotten from the household weren’t the entire story. And after you had began reporting the story, he confirmed you what he’d discovered. You sat collectively in his dwelling workplace, and he confirmed you his uncle’s loss of life certificates saying Leemon Anthony was shot by police and lists the reason for his loss of life as murder, however no person was charged with a criminal offense.
Wilbon Anthony: It says, shot by police or resisting arrest. Well, nobody ever, I by no means heard this in my, uh, entire life. Then merchandise 21 enlisted causes of loss of life: unintended suicide or murder? And enlisted that merchandise as murder.
Cara Anthony: Okay. Okay. Um, that’s lots. I must pause.
Dan Weissmann: So you allow us to hear your response to that and saying ‘that’s lots.’ And then you definately allow us to hear the clicking of a tape recorder stopping. Can you inform us extra about that second and what occurred subsequent for you?
Cara Anthony: Yeah. I imply, look, my uncle was killed by the police in 1946 in West Tennessee. For most of my father’s life and likewise mine we had been informed that he was killed in a wagon and mule accident. You know, and so listening to the info round what occurred to him seeing my dad pull up what I might name virtually like a ache diary that was simply sitting on his desktop of his laptop, the place he was simply submitting away issues, amassing issues, newspaper clippings, Leemon’s loss of life certificates. Um, there’s lots to soak up in that second, and I’m nonetheless grappling with that and what meaning, and the way I’ll even share that story with my daughter sooner or later. But yeah, it’s a ton of course of and our household remains to be processing it. You know, I feel the subsequent step for us is making an attempt to go and discover the place Leemon Anthony is buried in Tennessee for some closure now that we all know what really occurred to him.
Dan Weissmann: Why do you assume your dad selected that second to share what he discovered with you?
Cara Anthony: He noticed me, you understand, diving into these tales in Sikeston and I don’t know if he all the time thought that I used to be significantly inquisitive about our household story, if I cared, you understand, um, we might go to household reunions and I used to be a child, you understand, so I might wish to exit and go bowling or go to the arcade or do no matter my youthful cousins had been doing. And I heard whispers of individuals speaking about Leemon at household reunions, however I by no means actually stopped to concentrate. And I feel as he noticed me touring forwards and backwards to Sikeston and bringing dwelling these tales – as a result of we lived collectively whereas I used to be reporting this out– I feel he actually noticed it as a possibility for us to have a tough dialog about our household’s historical past and our household’s story. And I’m actually glad that he did as a result of it modified even my reporting strategy as soon as I noticed what my dad was conserving to himself for all these years.
Dan Weissmann: Has there been a change in your relationship along with your dad?
Cara Anthony: Yeah we’re speaking about extra and identical goes for my mother. You know, my mother simply known as me final night time with a narrative, as a result of she, we took a household journey all the way down to Sikeston, um, a couple of 12 months and a half into my reporting and my mother and father grew up within the rural South. And so I mentioned, nicely, let’s cease at a cotton subject, you understand, wouldn’t that be enjoyable? And they’re similar to, ‘okay.’ You know being a Black American, I perceive that cotton was weaponized and, you understand, my enslaved ancestors obtained nothing for his or her labor. Now I’m completely conscious of that, however I had by no means been to a cotton subject and I assumed it will be a superb subject journey for my daughter and, you understand, my mother and I had been speaking about that final night time and he or she mentioned, nicely, do you know that, um, typically my grandfather when it was chilly exterior, he would chop down all the inventory of cotton and convey it inside our dwelling and place it in entrance of our wooden burning range in order that we may decide cotton inside our home in order that we wouldn’t be too chilly, you understand, um, throughout the winter months and I’m similar to ‘what?’ It’s like she’s been working like she was a grown girl since she was an elementary college scholar. And that was actually laborious for me to consider, to course of. I used to be actually unhappy when she shared that story with me. I noticed that it knowledgeable how she raised me and my siblings and even how she interacts with my daughter. And so, I used to be grateful, but additionally simply emotionally devastated as a result of these are completely mandatory conversations and I all the time take into consideration now, like, what if I hadn’t raised my hand to go to Sikeston? Would I’ve missed all of this? So I’m actually grateful and grateful that they’re now opening up and sharing these tales as tragic and as horrific as they could be. These are mandatory conversations.
Dan Weissmann: You’ve talked about right here and also you talked about within the podcast that you’ve a type of ongoing internal dialog with your self about as a dad or mum, how do you share and when do you share, um, these tales along with your daughter. You hear a dialog that you’ve along with your daughter that’s, you understand, I feel an instance of aiming to, um, create area for nearer communication. I’ll play it right here.
Cara Anthony: Sit over, come over right here, come over right here, severely, do you keep in mind a few weeks in the past whenever you had been crying and I informed you to repair your what?
Lily: Face.
Cara Anthony: That wasn’t very good. I need you to know that we. Can speak about issues, as a result of once we speak about issues, we regularly really feel higher, proper?
Lily: Yes.
Cara Anthony: Can we hold speaking to one another when you develop up, in life, about stuff, even laborious stuff?
Lily: Like, doing 100 math info?
Cara Anthony: Sure. That’s the most important factor in your life proper now, however sure, all of that. We’re simply going to maintain speaking to one another. So can we make a promise?
Lily: Yeah.
Dan Weissmann: It’s such a stunning dialog and also you select to finish that second episode with that. Why is that the top of that episode?
Cara Anthony: First of all, I simply wish to level out that I hope everybody heard just like the hesitation in my daughter’s voice after I mentioned, can we make a promise, like constructing belief is like so vital and I feel we ended the episode that approach, partly as a result of Lily represents the subsequent era that may come up and, and lead us, but additionally as a result of it’s simply uncooked and actual. And I don’t need my daughter to ‘hush and fix her face,’ however quite to precise her feelings, say what’s mistaken if one thing’s mistaken. And so we wished folks to really feel the authenticity of that second and to have folks perceive that it begins younger and it begins now. And I’m not going to get it proper the entire time, however a professor who’s in that episode. Her title is Aiesha Lee. She’s at Penn State University.
And one of many quotes that she offers us is so profound the place she says, and I’m paraphrasing a bit right here however she says like, every era has like a bit of the work to do as a result of these points and issues have compounded over generations, over time. And so, you understand, even a small dialog like that and what we’re doing now right here, Dan, this can be a piece of the work, you understand, and if we give it some thought like that, that basically offers me loads of peace, understanding that, okay, I can’t repair it in a single day. I can’t do all of it, however I can not less than do my half and that’s what we’re making an attempt to do.
Dan Weissmann:Near the top of the documentary, proper, there’s — there’s a ceremony, primarily in Sikeston of individuals filling jars with soil– to the type of museum and Institution that Bryan Stevenson created in Montgomery, Alabama. It’s known as the Legacy Museum, is that proper? It connects these a whole bunch of years of historical past from enslavement, mass incarceration, together with lynching. And there’s an exhibit there, a whole bunch of jars stuffed with soil and each is from a spot the place lynchings occurred. And so right here we see folks from Sikeston filling jars to ship there. As I noticed it, you understand, within the documentary, the best way that scene is introduced. You see folks smiling. Um, you understand, you see folks experiencing some type of satisfaction. Satisfaction just isn’t the precise phrase. I imply what’s behind these smiles…
Cara Anthony: It’s redemption. It’s redemption. You know, it’s like, um, early on within the course of, I used to be watching loads of completely different, um, TED talks about communities that had related, you understand, racial reckoning experiences. And I ran throughout one which talked about The three R’s of historical past, which is, you understand, the three R’s are acknowledge, restore, redeem. You have to acknowledge what occurred, you understand, as a way to restore it. So you need to say, sure, you’re wounded. Now let’s work out the right way to repair the wound so to have days of redemption and transfer ahead. And that’s actually what you noticed in that exact scene however that doesn’t imply the work is full. And there are folks that don’t desire a marker for Cleo Wright within the metropolis, even at the moment. So let’s not, you understand– I simply don’t wish to paint an image of perfection or that every thing is okay now, as a result of there’s nonetheless a lot that must be executed. that’s my greatest factor with this, is that this can be a place to begin. Um, we’re not on the end line but.
Dan Weissmann: Cara, thanks a lot.
Cara Anthony: Thank you. [music]
Dan Weissmann: Cara Anthony is Midwest Correspondent for KFF Health News. You can discover the documentary Silence in Sikeston on the PBS app, or on YouTube.
Silence in Sikeston, the podcast, is on the market — wherever you get your podcasts. We’ll have a hyperlink wherever you’re listening.
We’ll be again in a couple of weeks with a narrative I feel you’ll positively wish to hear. Holden Karau has been constructing a software that’ll allow you to use synthetic intelligence to jot down appeals when medical health insurance denies a declare. Her software known as Fight Health Insurance, and the slogan is: Make your insurance coverage firm cry, too.
That’s subsequent time. Till then, deal with your self.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by me, Dan Weissmann, with assist from Emily Pisacreta — and edited by Ellen Weiss.
Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard. Our music is by Dave Weiner and Blue Dot Sessions. Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for viewers.
Lynne Johnson is our operations supervisor. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations.
An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Health News. That’s a nationwide newsroom producing in-depth journalism about healthcare in America and a core program at KFF, an unbiased supply of well being coverage analysis, polling, and journalism.
Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Health News. He’s editorial liaison to this present.
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