Dan Weissmann
“An Arm and a Leg” updates a preferred episode from 2019 — a narrative about giving.
In 1980, a younger father named Denny Buehler was battling leukemia and wanted to journey from Ohio to Seattle for remedy. To increase cash for the journey, his family and friends organized a softball event.
Denny handed away just a few months later, however his family and friends turned the softball event right into a beloved custom. For greater than 40 years, they’ve hosted the video games and bought scorching canines to lift cash for different individuals within the space who need assistance with medical bills.
In 2019, the Denny Buehler Memorial Foundation discovered a technique to make a much bigger influence, shopping for up previous medical debt — and erasing it. Today, its accomplice within the effort, now generally known as Undue Medical Debt, has wiped away billions in debt.
Dan Weissmann
Host and producer of “An Arm and a Leg.” Previously, Dan was a employees reporter for Marketplace and Chicago’s WBEZ. His work additionally seems on All Things Considered, Marketplace, the BBC, 99 Percent Invisible, and Reveal, from the Center for Investigative Reporting.
Credits
Emily Pisacreta
Producer
Adam Raymonda
Audio wizard
Ellen Weiss
Editor
Ann Heppermann
Editor
Click to open the Transcript
Transcript: Revisiting ‘Christmas In July’
Note: “An Arm and a Leg” makes use of speech-recognition software program to generate transcripts, which can include errors. Please use the transcript as a instrument however test the corresponding audio earlier than quoting the podcast.
Dan: Hey there–
We are bringing again a narrative we first put out 5 years in the past. We referred to as it “Christmas in July” as a result of it’s a narrative about giving.
Some issues have modified since 2019 — hello, we’ve had a pair large presidential elections and a pandemic. And there’s been some information on our beat lately. We’ll have some updates and a few context so as to add on the finish.
For now, right here’s the story:
In 1980, Denny Buehler was a 24 12 months previous man with three youngsters and leukemia. He wanted a bone marrow transplant, and in these days, that was not accessible in Cincinnati, the place he lived. He needed to go to Seattle, together with his sister, who was the donor. And his spouse.
Jenny: Well I keep in mind my dad and I’m the one one in all my siblings who does.
This is Denny’s oldest daughter, Jenny Spring. She was 4 when he went to Seattle.
Jenny: I do keep in mind realizing he was sick. I keep in mind, you recognize, we lived together with his dad and mom, our grandparents, whereas he and my mother and aunt Cynthia have been in Seattle.
It was an extended distance relationship: Letters. Sending tapes backwards and forwards– in these days, long-distance telephone calls have been costly.
Jenny: I keep in mind studying my first e book, go canine, go onto a cassette tape and sending it out to Seattle.
Back dwelling, Denny’s different sister, Mary Beth, organized a softball event to lift cash for all of the bills: Flights to Seattle, locations to remain.
[[ENTER THEME]]
And that softball event– that one-off occasion that was a part of one household’s battle– turned the germ of one thing that’s now– 40 years later — beginning to assist a LOT of individuals.
This is An Arm and a Leg, a present about the price of well being care. I’m Dan Weissmann.
[[THEME FADES UNDER NEXT TRACK]]
The bone marrow transplant labored however Denny died of pneumonia just a few months later. February 14, 1981
Jenny: We had a Valentine’s day get together at college. I used to be in kindergarten and my mother’s brother, my uncle Tim got here to select me up from college, which was very unusual.
Jenny (cont): And he took me over to my dad’s dad and mom’ home.
Jenny: And I keep in mind I used to be consuming a purple coronary heart formed lollipop sitting within the entrance seat of the automobile trigger youngsters have been allowed to try this again then. And uh, I keep in mind he stopped laborious and I bit down on the lollipop It broke in my mouth and I seemed over at him and, and I noticed he was attempting to not cry.
[[ENTER MUSIC: LOW-COAL CAMPER]]
They bought there. The entire household was there– each side– all ready to present her the information
Jenny: I keep in mind I mentioned, my daddy died?
And that left the household in a tricky scenario, and never simply emotionally.
[MUSIC FADES — OUT AFTER “HE WAS 24]
Jenny: You know, he was 24 after which my mother, you recognize, identical age. Three youngsters, 5 and beneath, highschool diploma. Trying to determine find out how to make issues work.
ED: You know we didn’t have a complete lot.
This is Jenny’s brother Ed. Four years youthful
ED: You know, there have been instances the place we needed to go grocery buying at grandma and grandpa’s home, you recognize.
Jenny: That is true. I keep in mind– yeah we’d go in and you recognize, mother would take meals from the cupboards within the fridge and we’d take it dwelling. And I’d, you recognize, they knew she was doing it. But they purchased further and it was simply, you recognize, no person talked about it. But that was the best way it labored for some time.
The grandparents additionally stepped ahead to assist out in larger methods. Like they bought a home for the household in a close-knit little suburb, Greenhills. Good faculties, a way of group, all due to grandma and grandpa.
Jenny: Without them, I don’t know the place we’d’ve been. You know as a instructor, I work with a variety of youngsters that come from low earnings households and so they inform me about their lives and I, you recognize, I mirror on that. That’s so simply how issues may have been for my household with out assist from each units of grandparents.
[[MUSIC STARTS FADING UP DURING NEXT TRACK: Heartland Flyer]]
The life Jenny’s grandparents made potential included extra than simply meals and shelter, a way of security. Being a part of that group meant time for celebration, for PLAY. In Greenhills, it meant… softball.
Ed: There’s a drive to the left.
Jenny: We form of grew up on the ball discipline . You know, my mother performed. My aunt Mary Beth, it was simply, you recognize, form of that softball life and it’s laborious to know in my reminiscence the place the separation is between simply being up there as a result of they have been enjoying in leagues– and when the event started.
The event.
After Denny died, his sister Mary Beth and her pals organized a SECOND event. This one was to assist out a pal who had gotten into a motorbike accident.
After that, the event turned an annual custom.
Announcer: We’re at Spoils Field in Green Hills for the fifteenth annual Denny Buehler Memorial Charity Softball Tournament.
There was just about at all times any person in the neighborhood to assist. Somebody with large medical issues, not sufficient cash. Sometimes a couple of any person.
For Denny Buehler’s youngsters, the event was a part of yearly’s routine.
ED: My entire life, you recognize, it’s simply been, it’s like Christmas or you recognize Easter or new years. It’s like a vacation for us within the household. You know, we’ve got, one other one which simply occurs to come back in July.
Ed was an athletic child, couldn’t wait to have the ability to play within the event himself. He needed to wait till he was 17.
[[MUSIC OUT]]
Then, not that a few years later, when Ed was 25, the group of pals that had been operating the event mentioned they have been ending it.
ED: They ran it for 25 years and so they have been, they have been simply able to be accomplished, they have been like you recognize we made it 25 years. It ran its course.
These people had been younger once they began it– of their mid-20s.
[MUSIC FADES IN: Perspiration — Lighter Touch (Adam, let’s kill the whistling, via stems please)]]
That was 1980. Now it was 2005. They had loved a variety of good instances, they’d labored laborious, they’d helped dozens of individuals, performed a LOT of softball, drank a variety of beer. It was a factor that they had accomplished for an extended, essential interval of their lives.
For Denny Buehler’s youngsters, it was greater than that. It was an annual custom that they had at all times identified– not for a part of their lives, their entire lives. It was a celebration they might depend on, a group occasion– an opportunity for his or her household, a household that had struggled, to be ready to present again, to be leaders. And it was a legacy from the dad that they had grown up with out.
Jenny for one was NOT prepared for it to finish. A few her pals, and her husband mentioned they’d assist. Of course Ed was recreation too.
[MUSIC FADES AND OUT]]
Jenny informed her Aunt Mary Beth she needed to take over the event.
Jenny: And she was slightly skeptical as a result of I’ll inform you what, once I was, Oh gosh, again then, let me suppose. What was I doing in life? I used to be singing in a punk band.
[[MUSIC: Shut Up, B— by the Hypochondriacs]]
Jenny: [Laughs] I in all probability had pink hair.
The band was referred to as the Hypochondriacs! This is their hit.
These days Jenny is a instructor, and a frontrunner for her daughter’s lady scout troop. She sings with a group choir — with 1200 members — that she helped begin.
But on the time…
Jenny: I didn’t have an enormous monitor file for taking up initiatives and tasks.
Jenny: I had discovered to e book and promote reveals and I assume that will be the primary kind of mission that I took on was selling punk rock bands, however, you recognize, to my household, that wasn’t a critical factor. That wasn’t.
[[MUSIC BUMPS IN VOLUME, THEN OUT]]
But in fact Jenny’s aunt Mary Beth wasn’t about to inform her no, she couldn’t attempt. Mary Beth launched Jenny to the remainder of the committee that had run the event. They taught her what they might about how the factor labored, after which it was as much as her and whoever she may spherical up.
Jenny: So I keep in mind the primary 12 months we did the event, simply not having the ability to sleep, you recognize?
[MUSIC IN: Spunk Lit]]
JENNY, cont: Just being so nervous about if we have been going to have the ability to pull it off
Jenny: It was my brother, my sister, my husband, just a few of my pals — the guitar participant from my band arising there with purple hair.
They pulled it off. Barely.
And that they had loads to be taught. For occasion, for a very long time a very powerful money-maker for the entire occasion has been operating a grill, scorching canines, and burgers, promoting meals. But the brand new technology’s first outing, they didn’t make a lot.
It turned out their concept for STAFFING the grill had some in-built issues. That concept appeared like a technique to shortly seize some further volunteer energy: When a crew bought eradicated, their gamers would take a flip staffing the grill.
ED: And then we realized, wait, we’re not making any cash as a result of they’re simply giving all of the meals away you recognize to their pals. They misplaced and so they’re handing out burgers and scorching canines like they’re sweet.
Over time, Jenny and Ed and the remainder of their crew tightened issues up– and bought a LOT extra volunteers, and made some new guidelines.
These days the event raises about ten thousand {dollars} a 12 months.
[MUSIC OUT]]
[AMBI: SOFTBALL!!]
Here’s the way it works.
There’s 18 groups, double elimination. It begins Friday night time– like a half a dozen video games– then up vibrant and early on Saturday, there until late at night time. Then all day Sunday, possibly into the night.
Ed says a pair thousand individuals may come yearly. Alot of video games, a variety of beer, burgers and corn on the cob.
[[AMBI FADES]]
In 2015, ten years after the brand new technology took over, they took a brand new step: turning this ad-hoc occasion, this factor that had simply one way or the other saved going for greater than 30 years– into an establishment:
They included because the Denny Buehler Memorial Foundation, an official tax-exempt non-profit group.
The concept was, they might begin to suppose larger.
ED: You know we’re working actually laborious. We’re doing actually good issues that we, all of us actually like and we’re all actually purchased into. But the influence is, is comparatively small for the quantity of labor that goes into it. You know, I don’t need to say $10,000 isn’t some huge cash, however life is difficult and when one thing’s gotten in your approach, $10,000 doesn’t go actually, actually far.
Jenny: We would love to assist extra individuals. And so we talked for a very long time about what that needs to be. And once I say speak, I imply we argued. (Laughs)
And when she says a very long time, she means two years. The basis was included in 2015. In the autumn of 2017, they have been… nonetheless … speaking.
And then at some point, inspiration. Inspiration that has led Ed and Jenny and the muse to assist their neighbors to the tune of one million {dollars} to this point.
That’s proper after this.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg is a co-production with KFF Health News. That’s a nationwide nonprofit newsroom producing in-depth journalism about well being points. Their reporters do wonderful work — and win all types of awards yearly. We’re honored to work with them.
So. Fall 2017. Jenny was driving dwelling from seeing a pal–
Jenny: And I had been speaking to her about, you recognize, the muse and the way we have been struggling to give you an concept.
She handed by a neighborhood dense with hospitals.
Jenny: So I’m driving by this hospital district and simply unexpectedly I thought of what John Oliver did
The 12 months earlier than, in 2016, the comic John Oliver had accomplished one in all his most well-known stunts on his HBO present “Last Week Tonight.” It was about a complete business numerous us had by no means heard of: The shopping for and promoting of
JOHN OLIVER: DEBT.
Debt. Especially medical debt. It seems, when you’re listening to from a debt collector about an previous debt, they in all probability don’t characterize whoever you initially bought in debt to– like say, a hospital.
At some level, the hospital-or-whoever SOLD your debt — actually, the precise to gather on it —
to another person. For loads lower than you owed.
JOHN OLIVER: and that debt purchaser can then come after you for the complete authentic quantity. And if it may’t accumulate, doubtlessly, it may then resell that debt for a fraction of what it paid to another person who can nonetheless come after you for the unique quantity
Or promote it to any person else for even cheaper. To the purpose the place actually previous money owed promote for pennies on the greenback. Actually, lower than pennies.
To exhibit how low-cost it was– and the way simply debt was purchased and bought– John Oliver purchased 15 million {dollars} in previous medical debt, for lower than half a cent on the greenback.
JOHN OLIVER: We thought: Well, as a substitute of amassing on the cash, why not forgive it? Because on one hand it’s clearly the precise factor to do, however rather more importantly, we’d be staging the biggest one time giveaway in tv present historical past.
JOHN OLIVER: So what do you say? Are you able to make tv historical past? Let’s do that!
Jenny: It was identical to an inspiration –I used to be like, that is the thought!
She bought dwelling and started working.
Jenny: You know, I pulled out my laptop computer and I began researching and…
She discovered that John Oliver had labored with a non-profit that makes a speciality of elevating cash to purchase and forgive previous medical money owed. They’re referred to as RIP Medical Debt.
Jenny: John Oliver had vetted them.
Check. Good signal. She saved going. A number of hours later, she was speaking with Jerry Ashton, one of many group’s co-founders.
Jenny: I mentioned, how are you doing this? How does this work?
And she favored what she heard.
Jenny: I like their story of how they have been debt collectors. And realized how they might use that energy for good.
Yep. Jerry Ashton and Craig Antico had been debt collectors for many years. They reversed course after working with volunteers from Occupy Wall Street, who raised cash for a mission referred to as “Rolling Jubilee” to purchase up and forgive previous money owed.
Jerry Ashton: We have been, mainly, a again workplace for them.
This is Jerry.
JERRY: They went out, and so they raised a $700,000 finally.
Jerry says he and Craig helped them use that cash to purchase up — and forgive — $30 million in debt. And when the Rolling Jubilee wound down, Jerry and Craig began RIP Medical Debt. That was in 2014.
Jerry Ashton: The first 12 months or so we starved to loss of life. But then John Oliver found us.
John Oliver introduced people to them– people like Jenny Spring.
This 12 months, RIP Medical Debt has raised sufficient cash to repay a billion {dollars} in previous debt. Craig Antico says two issues permit them to do it for a couple of penny on the greenback.
[[MUSIC IN: Lobo Lobo]]
One is: They’re shopping for previous money owed. Hard-to-collect-on money owed. The corporations that personal these money owed now– the precise to gather on these money owed– they don’t count on to get one hundred pc of what’s owed, or ANYTHING prefer it and something they get, they’re going to spend years chasing.
Craig Antico: Let’s say they’re solely going to gather 2% over the subsequent 10 years.
Cash upfront sounds good. The different factor is, RIP Medical Debt is shopping for in bulk.
Craig Antico: If I went to a hospital and mentioned, “I see you have $1,000 bill here for Jane.” And I supplied them $10, they’re gonna chuckle. If I put a thousand of these Janes collectively
That’s value speaking about. Instead of a thousand negotiations for ten {dollars} every, it’s one negotiation for ten thousand {dollars}.
So, it’s solely as a result of we abolish a lot debt at one time that they’re prepared to do that.
Jenny took all of it in. It added up.
[MUSIC STARTS TO FADE]]
Jenny: I got here to the board assembly and I, and I mentioned, Hey look, right here’s slightly little bit of analysis I’ve accomplished and I believe buying and forgiving medical debt
[MUSIC OUT]
… and all people was like, sure. I imply the consensus was prompt.
That was the autumn of 2017. In November, Jenny and Ed went to New York to satisfy the RIP Medical Debts founders in particular person.
By January 2018, the board had determined: They have been in. With some particulars to work out.
ED: The fascinating factor is the, the roadblock that we bumped into was, Oh, man, however we love the event a lot.
They took it sluggish, waited till that 12 months’s softball event–earlier than even introduced what that they had in thoughts.
Jenny: You know, we printed up some flyers that form of defined it. We needed to be actually positive that everyone knew that we weren’t altering the softball event.
That was July 2018. It took nearly one other 12 months earlier than they really raised cash for the brand new initiative.
Finally, in June 2019, they placed on an occasion at an area bar. They referred to as it Blues, Booze and Brunch.
[MUSIC IN: CHRIS LEE QUARTET, “BACKDOOR STRANGER”]]
They charged twenty bucks– ten for youths– and put out a taco bar for the unfold. If you ordered a bloody mary from the bar, a greenback went to the trigger. For leisure, there was a blues band led by one in all Jenny’s previous punk-rock friends.
There was a grill on website– and so they discovered find out how to scramble eggs on it– however all the pieces else needed to be made upfront.
MUSIC!!
Jenny: Let’s see: Our board member Tracy spent about an hour cracking eggs earlier than we went up there. My sister baked breakfast muffins and little pastries and issues like that for weeks and put them in her freezer
That raised the primary couple of thousand. A number of weeks later, the event went forward as common– elevating cash for a instructor’s aide at an area college with 5 youngsters and kidney most cancers.
And then, it was again to elevating cash to forgive medical money owed. Doing no matter they might consider. Local brew-pubs hosted occasions — a greenback for each pint bought on a fund-raiser night time went to the trigger.
[MUSIC FADES,OUT BY MIDDLE OF NEXT SENTENCE]
And there was a variety of happening fb, asking pals to chip in 5 {dollars} or ten.
Jenny: People work laborious and we’re dwelling in a time the place wages should not maintaining with, you recognize, the price of issues. And so it’s laborious to present for lots of households. But when individuals understand 10 bucks can grow to be $1,000, that helps any person out in a extremely impactful approach, then they’re prepared to donate.
[[MUSIC, “HELIOTROPE,” STARTED FADING IN UNDER “willing to donate”]]
Ed’s youngsters made tags for Christmas items– you recognize like, from Dan to whoever
ED: My spouse broadcasted it on Facebook, Hey, we’re making present tags. You can purchase six of ’em for $5. Um, and so they raised $255 simply making Christmas present tags.
Which– due to the multiplier impact– means they worn out greater than $20,000 in medical debt. With Christmas tags.
The group did a bunch of asks on Giving Tuesday in the beginning of December. Jenny says they raised $2,000 on Facebook that approach, which took them excessive: They had raised greater than twelve thousand bucks– sufficient cash to purchase that first million {dollars} value of medical debt:
Jenny: People are simply going to get this magic envelope within the mail
Magic envelopes.
ED: that say: You had this debt that had gone to collections. And it was bought and forgiven. You by no means have to fret about it once more.
[[MUSIC SWELLS, THEN FADES UNDER NEXT CUT, OUT BY “MILLION”]
They referred to as RIP Medical Debts and mentioned: We’re able to repay that first million. What subsequent?
Jenny: And instantly they arrive again and say there’s about $37 million in your space.
DAN: Like when you needed to tackle the entire of Cincinnati, mainly.
JENNY: Uh, properly we do. We intend to, we’re going to maintain going. There’s no motive to cease.
Jenny: Medical debt is in contrast to another form of debt. You select to tackle the debt otherwise you select to die.
DAN: Yeah.
Jenny: And it’s simply, it’s not proper. It’s not proper. And it’s like I inform my youngsters: When you could have all the pieces that you just want, it’s your job– it’s your accountability to assist individuals who don’t. And I consider that to my core as a result of that’s what individuals did for us once we wanted it.
Jenny says: We’re dwelling in bizarre instances. It is simple to be cynical. But this — making issues slightly bit higher that is what we’re right here for. It’s what we owe to one another.
JENNY: And, why not? What else do you need to do?
Dan: That’s the story, as we ran it in 2019.
Some issues have modified since then. For one, RIP Medical Debt modified its identify, earlier this 12 months, to Undue Medical Debt — that’s spelled U – N – D – U – E. Like this debt is now not as a result of anybody. Or as in Medical debt is an undue — improper — factor.
But it does sound like unDOing medical debt. Which, good.
They’ve additionally gotten loads larger since 2019, once they mentioned they’d abolished a billion {dollars} in money owed. By 2021, their web site says that quantity was 5 billion. By 2023, it was 10 billion.
In the final couple years, state and native governments have began partnering with Undue to get previous money owed forgiven– typically utilizing federal cash to purchase up these money owed: New York City, Cook County, Illinois; the state of New Jersey; And in Ohio alone, Cleveland, Akron and Cincinnati.
Recently, I caught up with Jenny Spring. COVID slowed down her household’s work on medical debt. The summer season of 2020, when gatherings like softball tournaments have been nonetheless mainly a “no,” they organized a live performance of types on zoom.
[AUDIO?]
And within the years since, simply operating the event took just about all the pieces that they had in them. The pandemic was an enormous deal.
Jenny: It modified our lives in methods we couldn’t predict. Everyone’s lives had grow to be extra difficult.
Dan: And it’s taken a very long time to regroup.
But now, she says, they’re able to tackle extra. And seeing how a lot Undue Medical Debt has grown– it leaves them pondering possibly they need to tackle one thing completely different.
Jenny: It’s nice paying off medical debt. We’re actually glad we did that. But, um, is there one thing extra instant that we are able to do? Is there one thing that helps individuals earlier than they’re in medical debt, earlier than they’re going through chapter, earlier than their household is, you recognize, getting ready to monetary break?
Dan: One concept they’re fascinated about attracts inspiration from two sources they’ve drawn on earlier than.
One is household expertise. In this case, skilled expertise. Jenny’s mother works in medical billing.
The different is… popular culture.
Jenny: I don’t, when you’ve ever seen the Incredibles, there’s this nice scene the place Mr. Incredible will get himself fired from his medical insurance job and so they’re mad at him as a result of he’s telling everybody find out how to get their claims paid
Boss: They’re consultants! Experts, Bob!] Exploiting each loophole! Dodging each impediment!
Jenny: Bob, they’re navigating the forms. Um, so, my mother is admittedly good at navigating that forms
Dan: And through the years, in her spare time, she’s helped lots of people navigate it.
Jenny: Her eyes are sharp and when she goes by payments, she picks up on these items, proper? And so, what if we may scale that up? What if we may increase sufficient cash to rent contractors to do that for individuals free of charge, proper? And possibly a lawyer or two to ship an occasional threatening letter.
Dan: Jenny says they’re nonetheless workshopping this concept. It’ll take time to determine particulars. Make a finances, a fundraising plan, all of it. More than a 12 months. But I do love this concept a lot.
As we’re on the point of launch this, Luigi Mangione, who allegedly shot United Healthcare’s CEO, has simply been arrested.
People have been expressing their anger at insurance coverage corporations like United all week.
It’s an anger that we’re deeply, intimately acquainted with, round right here.
We say each time: We’ve taken on probably the most enraging, terrifying, miserable components of American life.
And no one in all us can resolve this.
But that doesn’t imply there’s *nothing* we are able to do.
So, amongst different issues, I need to proceed speaking to individuals like Jenny Spring and her household. Over a long time, they’ve been patiently, creatively doing what they will do.
Put on a softball event. Raise cash to alleviate previous money owed. Find a approach to assist extra neighbors keep OUT of debt. They can’t do all the pieces. But they’re doing what they will, one step at a time.
Jenny says the board of the Denny Beuhler Memorial Foundation lately welcomed two new members — of their twenties. A 3rd technology coming collectively to maintain the struggle going.
I’ll catch you in a pair weeks.
Till then, maintain your self.
This episode of An Arm and a Leg was produced by me, Dan Weissmann, with assist from Emily Pisacreta. Our story was edited by Ann Hepperman in 2019. Ellen Weiss edited this re-release.
Adam Raymonda is our audio wizard. Our music is by Dave Weiner and Blue Dot Sessions. Gabrielle Healy is our managing editor for viewers.
Lynne Johnson is our operations supervisor. Bea Bosco is our consulting director of operations.
An Arm and a Leg is produced in partnership with KFF Health News. That’s a nationwide newsroom producing in-depth journalism about well being points in America and a core program at KFF, an unbiased supply of well being coverage analysis, polling, and journalism.
Zach Dyer is senior audio producer at KFF Health News. He’s editorial liaison to this present.
And due to the Institute for Nonprofit News for serving as our fiscal sponsor. They permit us to just accept tax-exempt donations. You can be taught extra about INN at INN.org.
Finally, thanks to all people who helps this present financially. You can take part any time at arm and a leg present, dot com, slash: assist.
And right here the names of simply among the individuals who have pitched in since our final episode. Plus, on the finish, slightly audio thank-you present.
Thanks this time to… [names redacted]
And now for that audio thank-you present: Here is Jenny Spring — do gooder, choir nerd, mother, and Girl Scout troop chief, listening to one in all her previous punk rock songs for the primary time in a dozen years. Jenny: It’s form of violent. Oh my god. So, it was, uh, I’m bored with your s I’m bored with your s And I don’t care when you cry. You higher give up earlier than I sock you within the eye. Ha ha ha.
“An Arm and a Leg” is a co-production of KFF Health News and Public Road Productions.
To keep up a correspondence with “An Arm and a Leg,” subscribe to its newsletters. You may observe the present on Facebook and the social platform X. And when you’ve bought tales to inform in regards to the well being care system, the producers would love to hear from you.
To hear all KFF Health News podcasts, click here.
And subscribe to “An Arm and a Leg” on Spotify, Apple Podcasts, Pocket Casts, or wherever you take heed to podcasts.
src=”//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js” charset=”utf-8″>